Wednesday, October 11, 2017

Email Response Concerning Contemporary Fathers

A friend asked me how Enoch and Noah could be contemporaries even though the Lectures on faith put the translation of Enoch before the birth of Noah. Here is my response:
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I'd correct a couple of things. First, it wasn't from the Apocrypha, but from the Dead Sea Scrolls: The Genesis Apochryphon.

Second, here's the actual passage:

"Behold, I thought then within my heartthat conception was due to the Watchers and the Holy Ones and to the Giants and my heart was troubled within me because of this child. Then I, Lamech, approached Bathenosh, my wife, in haste and said to her, "By the Most High, the Great Lord, the King of all the worlds and Ruler of the sons of Heaven, tell me This truthfully and not falsely. Is the seed within you mine?"

Then Bathenosh my wife spoke to me with much heat and said, "O my brother, O my lord, remember my pleasure, the lying together and my soul within its body. And I tell you all things truthful.

My heart was then greatly troubled within me, and when Bathenosh, my wife, saw that my countenance had changed, then she mastered her anger and spoke to me saying, "O my lord, O my brother, remember my pleasure! I swear to you by the Holy Great One, the King of the heavens, that this seed is yours and that this conception is from you. This fruit was planted by you and by no stranger or Watcher or son of Heaven. Why is your countenance thus changed and dismayed, and why is your spirit thus distressed? I speak to you truthfully.

Then I, Lamech, ran to Methuselah my father, and I told him all these things. And I asked him to go to Enoch, his father, for he would surely learn all things from him. For he was beloved, and he shared the lot of the angels, who taught him all things. And when Methuselah heard my words, he went to Enoch, his father, to learn all things truthfully from him.
" (Dead Sea Scrolls: The Genesis Apochryphon pp. 481-482)

[So while Enoch may have been translated by the time Noah was born, the fathers had ready access to him.]

The Lord wasn't kidding about benefiting from reading these things! Also, if you keep reading, this is Noah's recounting of how he came to be where he is.

From Moses 7 (LE):

"And Enoch beheld angels descending out of heaven, bearing testimony of the Father and Son; and the Holy Ghost fell on many, and they were caught up by the powers of heaven into Zion."

There's no reason this couldn't have gone on up until the flood. Otherwise, why keep Methuselah around to bear Lamech, and he to then bear Noah and have them preach to all men everywhere? And when these Angels are descending from heaven, couldn't they be the very Fathers we are talking about? In what manner did the angels "descend out of heaven"?

So you have them descending anyways, and preaching to others who repent and are caught up. But this next Zion is not going to be caught up. The old will come down. Communication between those in Zion and those outside of Zion this time will probably be more practical.

Another relevant quote from Joseph:

"And now, I ask, how righteousness and truth are going to sweep the earth as with a flood? I will answer. Men and angels are to be co-workers in bringing to pass this great work, and Zion is to be prepared, even a new Jerusalem, for the elect that are to be gathered from the four quarters of the earth, and to be established an holy city, for the tabernacle of the Lord shall be with them." (TPJS)

So if you ever have to respond to "HEY! ONLY ANGELS WILL DO THE GATHERING!" then you can say "Well, yeah, sort of. They will work in conjunction with men to accomplish that. Joseph said as much."

It's all part of what Denver was talking about. In the days of Noah we see that it was easy enough, though a serious matter, for "men" on Earth to work in conjunction with the translated city.

So the point isn't who was touching the ground at the same time, but rather what was the work being done and who was involved.

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I don't know for sure how much of this is true, but it's what I have been able to gather from my studies and prayer.

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